Author Topic: to kerry or not to kerry?  (Read 37865 times)

Offline Diarmaid

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2009, 20:29:22 »
Tom, Conor,

I kinda resent what you're saying to/about me. Yes, I'm a social member, but I never said Kerry is a drinking holiday or that the paddling is unimportant. Obviously the paddling comes first; I know that even if I don't plan on paddling in Kerry, Kerry wouldn't happen without boating.

I didn't say that Tiernan's post was off-topic because it was about kayaking. But the talk about moving Kerry has been going on at least since several months before Kerry 07/08. To say this whole debate is motivated by people not getting value for money this year is mistaken. We have been talking about this even after years when there was plenty of rain.

If paddlers didn't get value for money this year, then that's unfortunate and it exacerbates their grievances with the amount of money they're handing over. But all I said is that the lack of rain this year isn't what initially prompted this discussion - it has been going on a whole lot longer than that.

Also, as I believe someone pointed out already in this thread, the lack of rain this year wasn't localised in Kerry - it was dry all over Ireland. If we had moved Kerry, there still would have been no boating.

So while the lack of paddling this year may have left people with a bad taste in their mouths about the cost of Kerry, it's not something that would be addressed by a change of venue. And a dry Kerry is something that could happen any year, wherever we are.

That's why I said the lack of rain this year wasn't the crux of this issue. It's not because I myself don't paddle. I love this club and I am only interested in its wellbeing, but just because I don't boat that doesn't give you licence to make me out to be a drunken laughing stock. I have opinions about the venue for Kerry, just as the next person does, and I'd appreciate it if you gave me some credit and didn't presume I'd be so short-sighted as not to consider the kayaking in the planning of a kayaking holiday.

 >:(

Offline Sara

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2009, 10:17:53 »
Boys put your handbags away and lets get back to the topic,

Reasons to leave Rossbeigh
1) The ice box houses (rent cost and electricity costs)
2) The Ross inn (service, kid at 3am, anything else)
3) People craving a change of scene

Options
1) Find somewhere different that meets our paddling, surfing and social requirements
2) Clubs negotiate a deal on the ice boxs (Private house renters discuss a deal on private houses)

Reasons to stay in Rossbeigh
1) Surf in walking distance
2) Excellent knowledge and abundance of local rivers
3) A large pub we have almost exclusivity to
4) Houses in walking distance of eachother

Anyone want to copy and paste this list and add some things I've missed???

Sara

Offline Diarmaid

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2009, 10:21:20 »
hmm... it seems I can't edit postsin this particular board. two things:

looking back, it seems the first post about the lack of rain this year was by Tom, not Tiernan. sorry about the mixup.

and Conor, I would like to withdraw your name from the top of my previous post. I was a bit miffed at the time I wrote it but in retrospect there's nothing in your post I have reason to take offence at.

Offline Simon R.

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2009, 11:06:18 »
you should have all just come to uganda with me and ritchie.........

Offline Monkey Loving Bob

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2009, 11:10:58 »
Yeah, that seems to have worked out great for you...

burn...

Offline allio

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2009, 11:22:02 »
i went into a bookstore yesterday to look at a map of kerry....

but before i get into that, firstly i'd like to propose discussion on a few bits and pieces....

1. Centres for extreme sports in Ireland: realistically, there are only three areas in Ireland with shed loads of *white water* paddling condensed into an accessible region which does not involve horrific amounts of driving. Kerry, Wicklow and Donegal. The event has to be considered in such terms.

my opinion:
Wicklow: as a Dublin based club, going to Wicklow for a week of paddling at new years is a non starter as we would be going away to somewhere we go every time it rains.... also, east coast so much lower probability of rain, and no surf.

donegal/sigo: supposed to be lots of good whitewater, but extreme cold conditions, other considerations, and extreme competition with surfers for available housing at prime locations. ballybunion, rossnowlagh, strandhill, mullaghmore etc. (though  i quite fancy mullaghmore as a concept: schweet area, cool surf, plenty of holiday homes etc... availability? ask una? bit of a hike to donegal paddling as it is in south donegal or sligo? though )

kerry: mecca to east coast boaters. lots of accessible whitewater to all grades. surf accessible to all grades at multiple locations. loads of holiday destinations with plenty of holiday villages. warmer location in general.

connemara: i had originally proposed connemara, but on reflection, the paddling is extremely diffused, and the surf spotty and generally a lot more inaccessible at the fresher standard.

<b>2. Location Location Location: What are we really looking for in a new years destination? accessibility to rivers, surf, housing, pub. ambiance. [/b]

my opinion:
firstly, I'd like to discuss rossbeigh without reflecting on price. What exactly does rossbeigh offer us.
(a) access to kerry paddling: in very close proximity, three stretches of the carragh river for three different standards of paddler. in medium proximity: access to killarney area rivers, clydagh, flesk, three stretches of the roughty. in diffuse proximity: west cork/east kerry boating.

(b?) surf: accessibility within WALKING distance to ross beach for all and sundry. The importance of this factor cannot be overstated. the fact that clubs can step out the front door of their respective houses, already dressed for battle, walk across the road and get in the Atlantic, without having to mobilize transport, or masses of rescue is of vital importance for the trip. no rain, throw the freshers in the soup (ross surf), too much rain (where all your decent boaters/rescue f**K off to do some good boating, throw the freshers in the soup. night time and deranged drunk and you just want to get naked and wet: throw the freshers in the soup. the ross beach within walking distance is of paramount importance to this discussion.

accessibility in the medium distance: castlegregory, garywilliam point and finians bay: great surf spots for the not so faint of heart. inch strand for more soupy beach break fun.

(c) housing: lets face facts here people. nobody actually seems to live in rossbeigh. it seems to be a village of empty holiday homes, so: NO LOCALS TO PISS OFF. i mean, lets be honest, how easy is it going to be to find another place where nobody actually lives, that has a pub, a beach and 50 holiday homes in a half mile radius. because that's what rossbeigh is.... and why castlegregory didn't really work. the one thing about castlegregory that really annoys me was that we were spread out all over. it was like taking a shotgun to the dingle peninsula we were that spread out. try and  find another village with that much holiday housing condensed into a confined area.

(d) the pub: the pub is ours for the week, and by this i really can't emphasize how much that pub actually is ours. two years ago i actually had to push the barman out the door of the pub at 8am deranged drunk, take the keys off him, lock the pub myself and drop the keys up to michael cahill.... you just aren't going to get that anywhere else... they let us do what we want, for as long as we want, dj our nights ourselves, no cover charge, free chips and sausages in the small hours, allow us lock ins for sing songs, a function room for table quizzes, and all with the knowledge that if there ever is any hassle with locals, the locals get slapped on the hand and turfed out. anybody remember the days of the GAA ball on the 29th? he used to lock us in the bar and throw all the gaa crowd out at 1.30 while letting us party til 5 or six am. no hassle with the police as michael is a local county councilor etc, etc, etc, etc. and within walking distance of your bed? lets find another pub like it....

(e) ambiance: kerry for me is also about a time where i get together with all of my friends for a week, and i get to see everybody repeatedly, sit around talk shite, people come back from abroad, and we're all within walking distance of each other, so dropping up for tea/sherry in the afternoon for a chat with friends i might not have seen properly in 6 months or a year is of major importance to me as an oldie, and of vital consideration for me in terms of the trip as a whole. realistically, i don't do as much boating now as i used to, having slipped into that oldie comfort zone of story telling and "back in my day"ness. what i enjoy about kerry is my friends, and having them all about me for every night in the week. dinner parties where i can invite up all and sundry in the knowledge they'll come because it really is a case of sticking a bottle of wine in your pocket and popping next door. parties i can walk ten seconds to, and if they're shit, be back in the pub in ten seconds. i really think of it as a package holiday to a resort with a hundred of my mates. and so....

3. Cost/affordability: The raging issue. Are we being overcharged in the ross area?

my opinion: no, No, NO, definitely not. where else can i go where i get the advantages of a package holiday, without having to pay package holiday rates with a hundred of my mates. the ross area ticks all the boxes on my list for the very affordable price of 120-150 euros accommodation and board, provides access to the sports i do, a venue for socializing, the ambiance of friends, the craziness of having all the paddlers of ireland locked in a box for a week of madness.... i think that a hundred euros rent for my week (600 euro for 3 bed/sleeps 6)
is right on the money.

My conclusion:
I really DON'T care about paying a premium for housing in the ross area. i'm super thankful for everything the area provides me.
The rain issue: every so often we have a dry kerry. suck it up. ever been on a trip to scotland where it hasn't rained? low water alpes trips? ski trip and no snow to ski on? mountaineering/climbing trip where conditions were too bad to do anything but stay in your accommodation. with any adventure trip where the dates are set in stone, you roll the dice on whether conditions are going to be right for your activity, and don't whine when it doesn't suit. we don't have a weather machine.  that's the long and short of it. so. suck it up. or go hill walking, or mountain biking, or kite surfing, or paragliding, or rock climbing, or mountain boarding, or cliff jumping, or caving, or playing music, or heavens forbid you go to the pub! kerry is a playground people.

Notwithstanding the dee issue. i don't think we're going to find anywhere else in ireland that gives so much in such a condensed area. I'd like to see reasoned debate centred around the three topics i mentioned, and advocate the investigation of other areas. i've looked at a map of ireland, and can't really see any where else that doesn't involve me making concessions on my ideal kerry experience. but i'd also like to see a lot more respect given to the ross area. we have been going there for over twenty years now and it hasn't failed us yet...

xxx
allio
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 12:19:46 by allio »

Offline allio

  • Posts: 437
Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2009, 11:23:07 »
i was an hour writing that post, and sara's post was sshtuck up in the interim....

love to see that we're operating on the same wavelength sara :)

:) :) :)

allio
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 11:25:38 by allio »

Offline allio

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2009, 12:15:48 »
thought a wee bit more about what i posted and wanted to add something else for discussion:

how important is the beach/sea to the kerry experience?

if we took the beach out of the picture, kerry need not be a coastal trip, if we started looking inland and not just at coastal villages, i'm sure there'd be a lot more locations up for discussion....

*personally i think the beach is of central importance to the trip as a whole for reasons i discussed earlier*

allio

Offline allio

  • Posts: 437
Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2009, 13:07:46 »
just found out that the michael cahill wasn't running the pub this year... was he about? anybody speak to him? was this a one off thing or are the cahills done with the ross?

Offline RichyG

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2009, 13:23:22 »
Hi Kids!

Firstly - I'd better introduce myself - I'm Richy Gillespie and I was playing a bit of guitar in Kerry this year.  I was also the guy who researched the move to castlegregory a few years back as my folks have a house there so I kind of know the lay of the land there.  Back then we did it because the Ross in was totally taking the piss (there was 1 price for the locals and another for us!) and also there was a bit of a bad attitude from them.

Castlegregory had most of the same advantages (big pub that everyone can fit into loads of houses + good surfing beaches), but the first year we all ended up being a bit spread out (some of the clubs ended up burning their bridges - but it involved one of the most amusing paties I was ever at).  The 1st two years in Castlegregory were a little like the one in Rossbeigh just gone - there was sod all to do.  That, coupled by the chage of attitude in Rossbeigh ment that we went back to Rossbeigh.  

Enough background
This is to my mind how things stand at the mo:

-The houses (especially the ice- boxes) are totaly and utterly overpriced - the arguement that it's cheep because you fit loads of people in (by comparison to a youthhostle) is frankly arse - if you rent a cheep house you can still fit loads of people in and more cheeply too!  Paying £££ for the iceboxes is pushing it.
-The Ross is cheap and large, which is a small plus
-The bigest plus, however, with Rosbeigh is that everything is on an O.K. surfing beach. That is the hardest thing to replicate any any other place.
-Paddling wise the other big draw is the Flesk - it used to be a big reason to go south west that time of year.

My bias is that ye should move and save £400 odd quid for the housing.  The worry is that clubs start moving to different places because of the cost of housing.

-Paddling options in Ireland (in broad strokes leaving loads of hiddden jems out) Northwest (Donegal), Southwest (Kerry/West Cork), and East (Wicklow).

Wicklow is too close to home for Dublin paddles and so is not a runner.

Donegal is far away from Cork Limerick and Galway and sure half the fun of Kerry is drinking with that shower. However you're near the border so it'll be cheep.

South West looks the best bet if you want to move.  You'd need to find someplace quickly that ticks the boxes.  I had to put together an Information Pack for Castlegregory and hand it out at the itervarsities so that everyone would move to the same place- so there's a bit of work involved in talking everone into moving if your that way inclined.

Here's the best way of finding a new venue:
Name all the surf breaks in West Cork / Kerry and then see if there's a holiday village beside them.

Example:
We to my mind haven't pissed anyone off in Inch (yet) is there a holiday village there?

One other thought that just hit me - a bigger travel but the U.K. Scotland will be cheep!

Anyways good luck and I hope this post is of use

Offline RichyG

  • Posts: 3
Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #70 on: January 22, 2009, 13:26:17 »
P.S. The surf beach makes such a differance as it's so easy to get to paddle - one downer with Castlegregory is that if you weren't up early enough to put your name down on a list you didn't get to paddle.  With Rossbeigh all the hungover people got the padling fix.

Offline allio

  • Posts: 437
Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2009, 04:55:11 »
*bump

Offline Monkey Loving Bob

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2009, 17:26:21 »
 :o

Let's just pick Inch as a startin point, same area, access to surf, 12 miles further than Rossbeigh. It seems to tick the paddling boxes as far as I'm concerned.

Now to the minor details:

- accomodation? not sure but it's a big tourist town.

- Pub - there are two I think.

- Locals? Who knows anyone locally to use as a sounding board.

Debate and destroy. :o


Offline Diarmaid

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2009, 17:43:33 »
alright then KY,

I would say that on the strength of what's been posted here, we should stay in Rossbeigh and just try to argue for better treatment there.

randomly picking a place off a map and going there for the sake of making a decision is a bit rash. better a still-very-good status quo than a long shot at even better.

Offline Monkey Loving Bob

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Re: to kerry or not to kerry?
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2009, 18:46:39 »
I'm providing a practical example Diarmaid not just closing my eyes ad putting a finger on a map - It's in the same area so it maintains all the same constraints as Rossbeigh in terms of travel and paddling, you know like the HR people say, what does better look like - I don't know, but I'm willing to find out.

I hope by providing a location people will discuss it on merit and see if it fits the criteria that have been coming to the fore by consensus throughout this debate.

If Rossbeigh is the place then we go full circle on the argument and everyone clearly sees that it is the best option. What it will not do and never will explore is whether there is a better option available. We know Rossbeigh and the situation - we know it will still be the same in a month's time and the following month and the same again in April. So no harm done and the opinionated get to go hell for leather for a while.

What we have here is the opportunity to examine viable alternatives, despite the emerging trend of let's approach 'she who must not be named' as a block and such, I for one believe that will be left too late and then all other options won't be available so we will walk back into the exact same scenario next year. To be honest approaching as a group may work, however if she's in any way tough she'll wait until she sees if there's any other interest from other parties nearer the date, I don't mean random gobsheens who for some strange reason would want to holiday in Kerry at Midwinter, but rather independent groups who organise accommodation aside from college club arranged accommodation who decide to go for it on short notice - which let's be honest is only all too possible.

So I'm suggesting that we actually put the money where our mouths will be and  if Rossbeigh emerges as the best option above all others in this entire country a representative of the colleges will have to approach the landlords in Rossbeigh and negotiate a better deal, if they have another option they will be able to do it from a position of strength.

I see no harm in looking at alternatives, but saying we should look at them for a month without really sitting down and examining even one. Well, that could go on forever.

Like I said before debate and destroy
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 18:53:56 by Monkey Loving Bob »