Looking for a boat! Anyone selling?

[Rachel]

Don't make your first boat a creeker just to go to the Alps

Ye.. I think that's kinda what I was doing so thanks! 

I think I just really want a boat and would love to go to the Alps so was rushing the idea for that. It's like how I wanted to buy a car cause I wanted to drive to Kerry  I should probably slow my ideas down! Not even sure if I can go to the Alps so maybe I'll make that decision first. Probably shouldn't have posted this up, just got very excited the other day when Robyn was here, we were boat browsing online.   

Back in my dream world though--> so want a Jacksons Little Hero, Shirley, it's us sized!! 

[kmck]

No problem in being excitied, anyone who has seen how I shop learns what impulse shopping really is. I've noticed from instructing especially at the ICU that people tend to buy creekers cause that's what the instructor paddled. There is also an option to rent boats in the alps also to go rafting and other things as well.

[Daniel]

I agree with Nuala, stay away from Creekers espeically if you want to develop your skills further in Ireland. No river here needs a creeker as you can nearly get away with using a playboat on most.

River runner with nice rails is what i would suggest (Burn, H3, etc). It will help you progress your skills better as you will have to paddle correctly and also develop better edge control.

You can bounce down a river with a creeker here. i have one and i can basically go sidewards all the way down. Not saying you dont have to paddle properly with a creeker just saying you can get away with not and can become lazy

[Monkey Loving Bob]

Interesting anti creeker sentiment on here, can I ask why people feel that your progression will be slower as a result of picking one boat style over another? Keeping in mind I would refer to a 'creeker' as any boat with resonable volume and a 'playboat' as short and slicy (or morbidly obese with flat bits as they now appear to be made)

I can argue both sides of the argument reasonably well. My opinion however would be that each one will allow you to develop certain skills more readily than the other, but a boat never by itself taught anyone a thing. If anything I would contend that the core skills are attained quicker as a result of using boats with more volume and length. Are people using the 'learn it by messing it up time and time again' approach in their personal paddling or a 'perfect practice makes perfect' approach?

Both have their place, but I know which one I would ideally choose...

[Daniel]

Im not anti creeker i just dont think its Necessary  in irish water conditions.

You can get creekers and river runners with pretty much the same volume. think the differnce is in the shape and the rails.

Like creekers tend to have rails not quite as sharp, example

http://cksblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/jackson_kayak_rocker_hull1.jpg

River runner with bit less volume like a burn, example

http://www.kayakshed.com/client/images/full/Pyranha_Burn_Medium_jaffred_hull.jpg

Like i own the karnali and its pretty much a creeker and i find i have to work quite hard to catch eddies and get it to go where i want it because it slides so easily and is quite fast

Im just saying that in irish water, there is no need to go for a big volume boat  as water isnt high volume here so getting a boat that you can control a bit more easily and responds quicker would be better to learn with.

I prefer the perfect practice approach, i dont wanna be swimming all the time

[JODY]

Well as i said before i'd consider having a smaller river runner/ play boat more usefull. You get the most use out of it because you can run anything the club will do & more in it, plus you get more out of it surfing on the Boyne, Liffey & sea

I only got rid of my Outlaw cause i could afford a big boat & a small boat, i actually kinda regret this as unless there is really high water the Outlaw would still be more fun to bring on a wicklow trip (unless you can tail squirt a Burn, which i cant!)

I don't think there's an anti-creeker sentiment here it's just that if you look at some new paddlers who use bigger volume boats you can actually see them float down rapids without even paddling.

I also don't think a creeker is essential for fresher heading to the Alps, the stuff you'll be running wont be massive volume (although it might be bigger than here). A big boat wont make you catch those eddies easier than edging & paddling hard!! 

It's an investment for the next couple of years if you can only afford one boat go for something a little more versatile... then when you feel you want to step it up either in river running, playboating or both trade up 

[kmck]

Not anti creeker, just believe in the right tool for the right job. If I have to buy just one boat I'd buy a river runner, to be honest the s8 and the I4 type boat would be my choice. They can do a bit of everything which is what you want if you can only buy one boat. I have a mamba cause I paddled it in france and it was great. I also have a super star cause I wanted a playboat but one that wouldn't bitch slap me if I took it to whitewater. I will probably buy more boats but not sell the ones I have as I have a dream to someday paddle all of them down a river in convoy. I regret having to sell my I3, it was a good boat and served me well, just needed the cash.

[Matt]

Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!

I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.

[kmck]

I haven't seen any bullshit from any post that was on topic. No I don't think it's the old playboat versus creekboat argument, well a little from Daniel disscussing the need for one in Ireland.
 There is a growing trend that has been spotted by instructors that their students tend to copy them when it comes to gear choice. As such people buy boats and gear that they don't need to paddle on the boyne and the liffey and some rivers in wicklow.
I also see people thinking about which boat, which gear and why. Is that really such a bad thing? Yep most of this goes way beyond the question asked but it's not bad for people to see different schools of thought on training and gear. Connor, my dad always said perfect practice makes perfect but I still think screwing up teachs alot as well.

[rog]

Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!

I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.

Well said matt, well said, I think as long as no one buys a pryanha s6 and then an M3 its fine.

[kmck]

Well I can see that education standards have dropped in UCD. I'm up tomorrow and will try a little gentle persuasion on both of you.

Fig1: Gentle persuasion.

[Eoghan]

Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!

I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.

Well said matt, well said, I think as long as no one buys a pryanha s6 and then an M3 its fine.

haha i agree....

[Jer]

You should really consider getting a wavehopper.

[Tiny Tim]

one word
INAZONE

[Ley-Ley]

T-Canyon