UCD Canoe Club
Boats and Gear => Buy and Sell => Topic started by: Rachel on January 31, 2010, 14:11:37
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I'm thinking of buying a boat, some kind of creeker, thinking about the Mamba but am open to suggestions. I'd need to try out the boat before buying.
Main point- I'm 5ft 2 so something for little people!! evil.gif
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You'd want to make sure you're really really into kayaking before buying a boat. Many a people have just given up after buying boats!
Maybe you should buy the rest of the gear first, or wait till you get your level 3?
But, if you do want a boat, there was a wee girl that was in the club last year who went back home to Sligo, her name is Caz, maybe you could find out what boat she paddled? Or talk to Shirley, she is in the market too!
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Okay, I have nothing for sale nor would any of my boats suit you size wise.
There are a number of questions you should ask when buying a boat
1. Am I going to be padling mostly with the club?
2. Am I going to be doing mostly white water or a mixture of different types of river/surf?
3. Am I looking to push my paddling to a higher level?
4. How much am I willing to spend on a boat?
Okay my own view is that anyone buying a boat for the first time should buy a river runner not a creeker. The reason for this is a river runner will do everything you want to do with the club, run whitewater up to and above grade 3, will surf well (depends on the boat), can do a bit of play on a river trip. I brought my I3 to france and it was great.
Most importantly it is not a band aid to your paddling, creekers are designed to be stable and bouyant on creeks. Using one while learning to paddle is a bit of a mistake as it will not allow you to make the mistakes you need to make to learn more. In other words you'll swim less but also learn less as a result. A creeker can't surf very well in small surf and when it turns sideways all you can do is bongo slide. You don't need it to do alpine rivers as a good river runner will do the job just as well. Most instructors use creekers to teach, not because they are the best boat but that they provide a stable platform to rescue people with, they are also easy to use to demonstrate some strokes.
Price if you are paying more than 500 for a second hand boat stop and save for a new one or buy a cheaper one and some other bits of gear.
Suggested boats, jackson fun 1, dagger gt, any pryhana inazone 220 or the newer I4 make sure it is the smallest boat you can get.
Try out as many different types as possible, get into the playboats the club has and ask other small paddlers their advice as they may be able to tell you other boats that would suit.
My old carpentry teacher use to say think twice cut once, you can always demo boats but you only have money to spend on one and it will be yours for at least two years so think carefully. Also think what do I want to be doing on the water in two years and will this boat help or hinder.
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Pia was talking about selling her 2fun??
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Get paddles and stuff first.
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How about a Pyranha M3(isnt that what its called Matt??) in "perfect condition" no scratches (or dents) for about €700 ;)
what a deal!!!! :)
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So good, it practically runs rivers by itself!
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If you dont own a decent set of gear (cag, b.a., helmet, paddles etc) i dont see much point in splashing out on a boat yet.
Give it a few more months, try out all the different styles of club boats & see what you like. Going for a creeker straight off isnt the best idea in my opinion... try something thats gives you the option to have a bit of a play too. There is alot of essential skills to be learnt from playboating & if you want to improve over the summer surfing & sluice are the most reliable spots to get water.
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Heya Rachel,
you have a great resource for boats in the club, it will give you the opportunity to try out loads of different designs and brands (each brand has it's own outfitting, one will fit a little bit better than the others). It's huge market for for the amount of participants and the range available is really impressive and diversee. As has been said before, take the time assembling the other personal pieces of gear before you commit to buying the single most expensive item you'll purchase.
A great place to really spend money is on your blades.
(http://www.atpaddle.com/dimg/thm/t300_576537f42c3e49382dc4fdf4397b8d5c.jpg)
There are some seriously good value blades that you will get years from available at the moment.
After that a deck and Cag will really improve your experience every weekend. A couple of smaller purchses now could see you enjoy yourself a hell of a lot more, improve your paddling and give you the time to familiarise yourself with the characteristics you're looking for in a boat.
On the other hand it's your money and we're not buying this stuff for you...
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yeah first look into getting good gear and playing around with the biggerr and smaller boats the club have! :)
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So good, it practically runs rivers by itself!
Jer, I salute you. Brilliant!
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yeh like i got blades and a helmet and other gear first rach and thats made a difference, id wait a while to try out the other boats and if people are super amazing they might even let u try out one of theirs so you can figure out what you're looking for before you spend super amounts of money (money that could be spent on alternate modes of transport for the time being *hint) maybe look into getting one over the summer or something instead?
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Ok, a lot to reply to..
Leighton, I'm sure sure!! I practically get withdrawal symptoms when I haven't been out in a while! Plus I kinda know my plan for the next few years, I've a good job here, and a house, so while I will travel I'll spend most of my time in Dublin so will be able to keep up the paddling.
Kieran, thanks for all the advice. Ye, a river runner sounds like it'd suit better actually. I am thinking of going to the Alps, although im not sure it'll happen, so if I was buying a boat, I'd want one I could use there. But ye, if I can get one that'll be alright there and can do more fun stuff here I'd be delighted!
Finn, you're alright thanks, nice try :P
I do plan on getting paddles and the rest anyway, cause, as I say, unless I get injured I'll definitely be keeping this up. Got vouchers for Christmas for Great Outdoors which I haven't even gotten around to spending yet so ;D
Robyn, I will get a car, don't you fret!! And ye, I don't expect this to all happen overnight, It'll be a while before I buy anything, if I do, cause, ye, I'll be trying different boats out.
Thanks guys!
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So good, it practically runs rivers by itself!
Jer, I salute you. Brilliant!
I second that
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Don't make your first boat a creeker just to go to the Alps: the Alps will last maybe 2 weeks, you will be paddling the boat for a lot longer. I personally wouldn't say you need a creeker until you start heading for more serious whitewater or going for a level four or instructorships. You can run most of the rivers you will be doing for a while in a playboat, and you will enjoy club trips on rivers like the Liffey and Boyne far more if you can make the most of them in a playboat than just by floating down in a big creeker. My first boat was a playboat, I have paddled it on all the rivers the club does, even the Annamoe, and it can be taken out on the Boyne in low water in the summer and I can still have a fantastic day on the river.
I picked a playboat first because I like playboating, others may not but even a riverrunner with nice rails would make a river like the Liffey far more enjoyable and give you more scope for trying things, or having the odd surf on the way down: plan your boat around all the paddling you will be doing not just the Alps, you will be paddling in Ireland a lot more often than France.
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Don't make your first boat a creeker just to go to the Alps
Ye.. I think that's kinda what I was doing so thanks! :(
I think I just really want a boat and would love to go to the Alps so was rushing the idea for that. It's like how I wanted to buy a car cause I wanted to drive to Kerry ??? I should probably slow my ideas down! Not even sure if I can go to the Alps so maybe I'll make that decision first. Probably shouldn't have posted this up, just got very excited the other day when Robyn was here, we were boat browsing online. ;D
Back in my dream world though--> so want a Jacksons Little Hero, Shirley, it's us sized!! :laugh:
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No problem in being excitied, anyone who has seen how I shop learns what impulse shopping really is. I've noticed from instructing especially at the ICU that people tend to buy creekers cause that's what the instructor paddled. There is also an option to rent boats in the alps also to go rafting and other things as well.
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I agree with Nuala, stay away from Creekers espeically if you want to develop your skills further in Ireland. No river here needs a creeker as you can nearly get away with using a playboat on most.
River runner with nice rails is what i would suggest (Burn, H3, etc). It will help you progress your skills better as you will have to paddle correctly and also develop better edge control.
You can bounce down a river with a creeker here. i have one and i can basically go sidewards all the way down. Not saying you dont have to paddle properly with a creeker just saying you can get away with not and can become lazy :)
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Interesting anti creeker sentiment on here, can I ask why people feel that your progression will be slower as a result of picking one boat style over another? Keeping in mind I would refer to a 'creeker' as any boat with resonable volume and a 'playboat' as short and slicy (or morbidly obese with flat bits as they now appear to be made)
I can argue both sides of the argument reasonably well. My opinion however would be that each one will allow you to develop certain skills more readily than the other, but a boat never by itself taught anyone a thing. If anything I would contend that the core skills are attained quicker as a result of using boats with more volume and length. Are people using the 'learn it by messing it up time and time again' approach in their personal paddling or a 'perfect practice makes perfect' approach?
Both have their place, but I know which one I would ideally choose...
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Im not anti creeker i just dont think its Necessary in irish water conditions.
You can get creekers and river runners with pretty much the same volume. think the differnce is in the shape and the rails.
Like creekers tend to have rails not quite as sharp, example
http://cksblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/jackson_kayak_rocker_hull1.jpg (http://cksblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/jackson_kayak_rocker_hull1.jpg)
River runner with bit less volume like a burn, example
http://www.kayakshed.com/client/images/full/Pyranha_Burn_Medium_jaffred_hull.jpg (http://www.kayakshed.com/client/images/full/Pyranha_Burn_Medium_jaffred_hull.jpg)
Like i own the karnali and its pretty much a creeker and i find i have to work quite hard to catch eddies and get it to go where i want it because it slides so easily and is quite fast
Im just saying that in irish water, there is no need to go for a big volume boat as water isnt high volume here so getting a boat that you can control a bit more easily and responds quicker would be better to learn with.
I prefer the perfect practice approach, i dont wanna be swimming all the time :)
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Well as i said before i'd consider having a smaller river runner/ play boat more usefull. You get the most use out of it because you can run anything the club will do & more in it, plus you get more out of it surfing on the Boyne, Liffey & sea
I only got rid of my Outlaw cause i could afford a big boat & a small boat, i actually kinda regret this as unless there is really high water the Outlaw would still be more fun to bring on a wicklow trip (unless you can tail squirt a Burn, which i cant!)
I don't think there's an anti-creeker sentiment here it's just that if you look at some new paddlers who use bigger volume boats you can actually see them float down rapids without even paddling.
I also don't think a creeker is essential for fresher heading to the Alps, the stuff you'll be running wont be massive volume (although it might be bigger than here). A big boat wont make you catch those eddies easier than edging & paddling hard!! :police:
It's an investment for the next couple of years if you can only afford one boat go for something a little more versatile... then when you feel you want to step it up either in river running, playboating or both trade up ;D
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Not anti creeker, just believe in the right tool for the right job. If I have to buy just one boat I'd buy a river runner, to be honest the s8 and the I4 type boat would be my choice. They can do a bit of everything which is what you want if you can only buy one boat. I have a mamba cause I paddled it in france and it was great. I also have a super star cause I wanted a playboat but one that wouldn't bitch slap me if I took it to whitewater. I will probably buy more boats but not sell the ones I have as I have a dream to someday paddle all of them down a river in convoy. I regret having to sell my I3, it was a good boat and served me well, just needed the cash.
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Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!
I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.
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I haven't seen any bullshit from any post that was on topic. No I don't think it's the old playboat versus creekboat argument, well a little from Daniel disscussing the need for one in Ireland.
There is a growing trend that has been spotted by instructors that their students tend to copy them when it comes to gear choice. As such people buy boats and gear that they don't need to paddle on the boyne and the liffey and some rivers in wicklow.
I also see people thinking about which boat, which gear and why. Is that really such a bad thing? Yep most of this goes way beyond the question asked but it's not bad for people to see different schools of thought on training and gear. Connor, my dad always said perfect practice makes perfect but I still think screwing up teachs alot as well.
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Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!
I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.
Well said matt, well said, I think as long as no one buys a pryanha s6 and then an M3 its fine.
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Well I can see that education standards have dropped in UCD. I'm up tomorrow and will try a little gentle persuasion on both of you.
(http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/2436.jpg)
Fig1: Gentle persuasion.
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Wow, my bullshit detector is off the charts!
I think we've had enough of the old creeker V playboat argument. It's an argument no one's gonna win and we're just going around in circles. Let's just put an end to it now.
Well said matt, well said, I think as long as no one buys a pryanha s6 and then an M3 its fine.
haha i agree....
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You should really consider getting a wavehopper.
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one word
INAZONE
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T-Canyon
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I agree with Tiny.
Inazones are the shizzle for both river running and a bit of surf.
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Pyranha have a new and improved Inazone out now - the Z.One - http://www.pyranha.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=158 (http://www.pyranha.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=158)
New Z.Ones are going for €850 here - Total Experience (http://totalexperience.ie/shop/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=1&Itemid=2&vmcchk=1&Itemid=2)
Just a suggestion...
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Interesting.....
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Saw it up there Matt, it's like an I3 / Redline Hybrid thingamajig... Looks like it has it's place, but for me probably as a third boat rather than my only boat. It looks like it make some rivers a lot more fun to play around with, good river boat for france actually.
C
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My Scud might be for sale. http://www.bliss-stick.com/default.aspx?pageid=27 (http://www.bliss-stick.com/default.aspx?pageid=27)
Give us a buzz if you're interested.
John 0863765488
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My Mystic is for sale, no maybes ;-) http://www.bliss-stick.com/default.aspx?pageid=19 (http://www.bliss-stick.com/default.aspx?pageid=19)
Mines green and in theboathouse for anyone who wants to look at it.
Let me know if you like it.
Conor.
0879527919
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Kylie- Rachel is 5ft 2. She'd probably get lost in your boat!
I'm selling my 2Fun. It's blue, perfect for tiny kayakers and the easiest boat to roll in ever!
However, it is a playboat so I dunno if you're dead set on getting a river runner. That said, I've run lots of big rivers in my tiny Fun and found I got more out of the trip than people who were in their massive tub boats (not exactly necessary for the Annamoe....)
Anyway, if anyone is interested, I'm also selling my blades, bouyancy aid, helmet and all my other bits of gear :'(. All have only been used a couple of times and are perfect for any girlie paddlers!
My number is 0868151336 If anyone is interested
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There's loads on inazones for sale here (http://www.irishfreestyle.com/node/6106)
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Inazones are lovely!
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pia what type of BA are you selling? xx
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Wow, thats a pretty good deal for everything you need to get set up for paddling!!
I know you probably want to sell this bargain within the club Pia but if you want to get rid of it all together dont forget to put it up on Irish Free Style aswell.
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Jesus, thats quite the offer... If only i was 5ft 6..
Any1 who sees this and is the right size BUY BUY BUY!!!