UCD Canoe Club
General => Foreign Trips => Topic started by: Niall Finch on October 23, 2012, 16:22:37
-
Shtory Hai !
I said I'd get the ball rolling here, probably fairly early though as well, but hey.
Who's interested in heading Alps next Summer ? I'd be hoping to head over for the best part of a month. Maybe after exams until the end of June-ish. Maybe organise a meeting to tlak about it, how soon ?
Expressed interest:
NiallF
NiallB
MarieH
Derv
Cillian
Cormac
Ross
Oisin
Maryanne
Karen - Woop Wooooop yeah yeah !!!!!!!
Nuala
Bill
-
I'm totally up for it! Those were the dates I had in mind too. I think all we really need to worry about before christmas is whether we have some leaders on board as well :).
-
i diiiiggg! also drivers/cars!
-
I dunno. I suppose I might absolutely be completely up for this.
-
Yup, totally
-
I'm well up for this and the sooner I know dates the better because I need to sort out dates for my rotations in the hospital for next summer. After exams-June would suit me best. And I think my car (aka George) would love an adventure too!
-
I'm well up for this and the sooner I know dates the better because I need to sort out dates for my rotations in the hospital for next summer. After exams-June would suit me best. And I think my car (aka George) would love an adventure too!
Shotgun !
-
I do like kayaking!
I'm not sure what I'll be up to in the summer (will hopefully have some sort of internship) but I'd definitely like to be involved in this if I can :)
-
Will see, there was some discussion about a few of us older people heading out. Though I might just pay money and head with the Canoe Ireland or Jenny.
-
Im definitely up for 4 5 weeks in Italy :)
-
Firstly....WOOT!!
Secondly, I'm just going to throw some stuff down, it's pretty incoherent and it's really just stuff from my experience. In no way do you have to take it for granted nor especially use it as a constraint. I just thought that people who were thinking about it might like a little info on the matter.
I've been to the Alps twice now and I really, really, RELLY love it. It's warm, almost all of the time. When you go to the rivers, there's usually water in them and you're just generally surrounded by mates and sunshine for weeks on end.
You learn LOADS, absolutely loads. You go paddling almost every day and get much more done in each day than you'd be used to here. I also think that all of the warmth, sunshine and good vibes really help here!
That being the case, I would like to formally declare that I could be interested in this.
I can drive, but don't have a car(unless Maryanne wants to go). for renting, I'm over 25 but don't have 2 years experience( I don't know whether the last bit makes any difference)
In terms of dates:
the places where I've been, and where most people go are France, Italy and Slovenia.
Usually Italy runs in late May, France in lateMay/June and Slovenia seems to be running all of the time.
FYI the rivers usually run at these times because this is when the snow melts. It can of course rain too, and this can have a huge effect. Often when it rains over there, it RAINS!
In terms of logistics...
When I've been over there, it's been driving (thank you Maryanne). You need lots of drivers and cars. three to a good-sized car seems to be about right and diesel. Definitely diesel. In the past, people have traded in their cars for the family car etc. to have something that's a bit bigger and more economical ( fuel costs are perhaps you biggest single outlay). Driving does add extra travel time, but if you've got the time, then it's actually quite fun. It's somewhere around 1350km from the ferry to Campertogno in Italy, we've done this in two days before, if you had two drivers to each car then you could possibly do this in one go.
You can fly in and rent a car either. I haven't done this though, perhaps Simon/Mark/Kyle/Peter could add some details?
I've seen other college clubs rent a van and drive that over with all of the gear, so that's something else.
Gear!
You really need your own full set of gear. Not just that ( depending on the nature of the trip) the club won't lend it, but
A: It's too much wear and tear to ask the club to absorb
B: You'll perform better and be happier having your own stuff. The difference between a set of club paddles and proper set and especially a club boat and your own is huge. The suitability of a boat to your needs and how well you outfit the boat really will make an enormous difference.
C: You can get the stuff in nice colours and shit. Just remember, there's going to be loads of photos.
I know that gear is really expensive, but you'll still have it when you come back (hopefully) and when you're over there you get so much better value from it anyway!
Level of the group.
Derv touched on this and it is really important. It determines where you're going to go, how much time you spend there etc. and this has a fair effect on the whole dynamic of the group.
You obviously need leaders for the group. But I think this seems to be a little chicken and egg. ie. more experienced people want to go paddling and are ususally more than happy to bring people down stuff, but dont want to be constrained in what they can do or where they can go either. It is unfortunately a tricky on to predict. A lot of the people who are thinking of going now are going to develop a lot between now and then (or alternatively, they won't, it's an active process). Also people will react differently when presented with the challenges you meet. It's a funny one.
Jeez that's long, sorry about that.
-
Somewhere on the site there was the Alps bible, the combined experience from about 3-4 years worth of club trips to the alps including one where we had over 40 people in the Alps at one time. The logistics on bigger ones demand that you have two or three trip leaders for the on the water stuff but they also tended to get landed with the off the water stuff as well.
We broke the groups as follows
Trip leader = Instructor or very experienced paddler
Sweeper = pretty much instructor or very experienced paddler this is a very important role on alpine trips
Rescue = level 4
Paddling group 1 anywhere from first year to third or fourth year
Paddling group 2 anywhere from first year to third or fourth year
People in the paddling groups were not guaranteed to paddle every river, if they improved over the time there they could move up and do more stuff.
We generally managed 2 river trips a day for 2 weeks, easy one in the morning hard in the afternoon
Fly drive is one way to go, much easier on the driver, however you need to get a roofrack when you arrive in country, you also need to be over 25 to get the cheapest rates. Most of us Flew and rented while there this saved time in getting to the alps as we could just fly directly to an area rather than travel cross country. At the time it cost around the same as travelling cross country
There are now more rules about boats on flights due to weight restrictions among other things.
I would say the earlier you decide to organise the cheaper it will be to book, flights and boats also it will give you a goal for your paddling for the year.
-
I have a digital copy of the 2004 Alps Bible. If anyone wants it, let me know.
I might be around at the end of May for a week (stupid English school term going until July...), so if anyone wants to go to Italy I'd love to tag along maybe
-
I would like to go, think I will be free. But I won't know till February or so.
-
I may be interested but will be very out of practice, I can't really see myself paddling past new years with finals.
-
I'd love a copy of the Bible there Matt if you could send it to me, please. niall.finch@ucdconnect.ie
-
oh send it on to cillian@totterdells.ie too please!
-
Want to? Hells yes. But I don't know how my research project is going to shape up over the summer and may not be able to go (AGAIN!)
-
I'm well up for this and the sooner I know dates the better because I need to sort out dates for my rotations in the hospital for next summer. After exams-June would suit me best. And I think my car (aka George) would love an adventure too!
Shotgun !
You can't see the car so it most CERTAINLY doesn't count!!
I'd love to come along on this but I'll be starting an internship soon as exams end by the looks of things :( grrrr....but if it starts late I'll let ya'll kno!!
-
Sniff Finch, I don't make the list? :'(
-
Boo-urns Ellen!
Just to point out what I said earlier (purely because I buried it in a maze of other stuff), the normal Alps window is right after exams, up to the end of June (as long as you want to go for).
Unless you just want to go to Slovenia, but you don't just want to go to Slovenia, the paddling isn't amazing (although I think it's possibly the nicest place generally to be in).
OOh, I guess a quick description of the places.
France - Briancon region.
There are a few places to base yourself, but around Briancon is the most popular.
There's a good variety of rivers in terms of difficulty, they tend not to have the relatively unspoiled charm of Italy or Slovenia though. Food/drink is shops is pretty cheap, but eating out is expensive. Contrary to common perceptions, French people are lovely. This incidentally is the place that the Alps "Bible" is based around, but it's probably worth keeping in mind that it was written a while ago. While you're here why not take a trip up to the nearby hamlet of Bouchier. Many people each year pilgrimage to this settlement that was founded with the sole intention of worshiping me.
Italy - Val Sesia
Paddling wise, this place is pretty fucking awesome. It's got just the kind of rivers that a lot of the people going will be looking to push themselves on. That said, the options at the lower end of the spectrum are more limited. Generally very nice. Eating out is fairly cheap, shops ok(cheaper than Ireland anyway). The water is crystal clear and it's got the kind of paddling that I just love.
The only is that aside from paddling...there just isn't all that much to do. It's definitely my favorite, but if the water levels aren't playing ball, you might just go crazy. Look out for the smelliest dog in existence; his name is "Argo", but he won't come when you call him, only just after you've made food.
Slovenia
Lovely place this; it's like stepping into middle-earth...but without the orks. Paddling wise it's impossible not to talk about the water. It's beautiful. It's like paddling in mouth-wash for the whole time you're there. The paddling isn't the most challenging, but if you're willing to look for it then there's definitely spots where you can really hone your skills. I guess that you could sum up the difference in character by saying that somewhere like Italy forces you to make your best moves, while Slovenia doesn't, but if you want to make gnarly moves, there's loads of potential for it. Generally very safe and group-friendly paddling (siphon-canyon aside), it's a great spot for a very club-orientated trip, or as a warm-up. Unusually, you cross the border from Italy and the bugs just double in size and exponentially in number - this isn't really troublesome, but kind of fascinating. Eating out here is reasonable and food in shops is really cheap. Fuel was also comparatively very cheap when I was there, I believe that Matt actually cried.
Italy Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TdW6kTLIQU&feature=plcp)
French-ville (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7QBjI51go)
Slovena-whatsit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd0zeckjdew)
UCD Alps 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEISNJhIjQY)
Edit: shit, I did a lot of rambling again, didn't I...
-
VAL SESIA! ^^
-
I second that Derv!
-
Italy
I went to Val Sesia first the summer of my fresher year and the Lower Sesia stretch was great, it was a huge step up than what I'd done before (Liffey, Boyne, Wicklow) and I ran it again and again and felt myself improving.
I also ran the middle Mastallone once, but only because Benny was running L4 training on it (I don't think it had been on the radar otherwise), the lower Sermenza once (with the UCD group) and Landwasser once (just a waterfall, with Benny & UCD).
The ratio in the group I went with was 6 strong, experienced paddlers (5 of whom had been to the Alps before) and 4 of us who were in our 1st/2nd years of paddling. What I got to run was very much governed by what the rest of the group were comfortable rescuing on, specifically, rescuing a swimmer on.
Slovenia
I was in Slovenia again this summer at a much higher level of paddling ability than when I first went and I was thoroughly entertained and challenged. Now that I have more knowledge of the rivers in Slovenia (Soca and Koritnica) I know that there are gorges, crux rapids and more opportunities for s-moves, flares and eddy work than you could imagine, resulting in a dream location to learn. You can also push yourself very hard on the Soca; pick lines that involve seriously control and technique.
Kim Siekerman, Dave Carroll, Simon Westgarth (and more I'm sure) go there every year at the start of the alps season because it is such a rich resource for training and they use it for their own training before bringing groups out. Slalom paddlers come from far away to train on it too (not just the slalom course, but on the classic section) so it is highly regarded as a kayaking destination.
My two cents
If I was designing a trip for me (going back in time to my first trip out there) I would start in Slovenia to aclimatise to alpine water, then start working on moves and build some confidence (it's really a very different paddling environment) and then start pushing hard (still in Slovenia) further out of a comfort zone to catch harder eddies and make harder moves, paddle the gorges, run the Koritnica, run the classic section picking out specific spots for key moves (eg eddy hop upriver) then maybe move on to Italy.
In my opinion, Slovenia is more suited to an alps trip (or at least the start/first chunk of a trip) where there is a high ratio of first time alpers because you get to paddle more consistently and the rivers are less bony, which means swims are less likely to cause wear and tear that would require rest days (something that has caused me to miss a noticeable amount of alp kayaking time).
-
Sniff Finch, I don't make the list? :'(
I didn't do up the list Karen but I will make sure that you're seen on it !!!
-
Sovenia is seven shades of awesome, just sayin'....
-
We started in bourg saint maurice, this has a a slalom course above the bridge grade 4 below the bridge grade 3, however this was constructed with a digger just dropping rocks into the river. It has been the scene of many a canoe club clusterfuck. Mostly due to rescue hopping on at the grade 4 section and swimming. Also as an introduction it's a bit of a shock, basically the water is faster, pushier and you need to be progressive in your technique to catch eddies
We then went onto Briancon, which has a slalom course beside the campsite and a huge number of rivers
Then onto Les deux alpes, we had the only women in the entire town it was a serious sausage fest but one hell of a party.
I'd like to head to Slovenia mainly because it sounds like fun, if I was to go I'd fly drive.
-
I'm interested but a veryyyy maybe at the mo :-)
Edit (Italy or France)
-
Not really interested in going to Slovenia, personally.
-
Why not?
-
Slovenia is lovely paddling, you can learn loads there if you push yourself as demonstrated by the guys last year, it's a pleasant spot and in my memories quite warm. But is expensive to get to.
Val Sesia is a lovely spot, but I will say this: I went out when I was a solid level 4 boater, doing level 5 training and I still found it very intimidating. Even at that level I was limited in what I paddled because I was not good enough to get on a lot of the rivers and often reasonably nervous even on the ones I did. It is amazing, I want to go back someday, but I think unless you are a very solid level 4 boater with a bit of experience you will be limited in what you can run.
France would be somewhere I'd love to go back to but every time I try the water levels go mental.
-
im just going to put this out there............ CHILE !!!!!!! afro.gif
-
vaguely thinking of going travelling next summer but I'd love to be kept in the loop on this, and maybe sort my shit out and go :)
I agree with the above, considering the majority of interested peeps are sort of 2nd years, Slovenia would be a superb location...I wouldn't necessarily head back this summer just because I've spent about 3 weeks there and wouldn't mind seeing something else. But as a, relatively, safe training ground it has everything! :D