Author Topic: Club meeting.  (Read 12348 times)

Offline david

  • Posts: 616
Club meeting.
« on: January 23, 2007, 14:10:53 »
Ok, Some of you may know that The club ran a trip During kerry that was lead by a L. 3 instructor and a L. 3 instructor trainee instead of  2 level three instructors.

This is in breach of the code of practice.

Some members are not happy with the way that the code of practice is slipping or with the attitude of the club toward he code of practice.

So we are going to organies a meeting of club members on wednesday the 7th of feb. it will be in the blue room on campus at 7o'clock. call me for directions to the student center if you need them.

We will discuss the code of practice, Poeples attitude towards the code of practice and any possible changes that the club feels may need to be made of either the code of practice, the constition or just the general river bank decision making approach of the club.

This isn't an EGM. we will just think about what changes might be necessary if any vote them into being at an egm later if any changes are necessary.

If you have an interest in the club beyond drinking and scoring Please come to this meeting and voice your opinions. If you have no interest in the Kayaking aspect of the club, well there won't be any free beer....

also, if you atre a virtual member do not post a stupid long 7 page rant under this topic. It is not the way to get your opinion heard, the debate will not be held on line, come to the meeting instead.

Offline joxer

  • Posts: 439
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2007, 19:15:51 »
Any chance of seeing the incident report before hand. Does the committee have any suggestions on their views/agenda that could be shared in advance as a method of helping people think about the situation

Offline Mr C

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Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2007, 22:48:28 »
... club trip ...in breach of the code of practice.
...possible changes ... to ...the code of practice

Surely just because the code was breached, doesn't mean the code is flawed. It just means that it must be more rigorously adhered to. Which is a people problem, not a code problem.

Any debate is always a good thing, but if it's not clear what its goals are it is possible to go off course and achieve nothing. Possibly if the committee had some suggestions for any alterations, this would be a basis for a discussion from which more concrete proposals may be made, thus leading to an EGM.

And now for some opinion: the code is fine, leave it alone it's taken 30 years (sort of) to get it this far! Deal with the violators instead.  ;D

Offline Monkey Loving Bob

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Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2007, 23:56:47 »
... And now for some opinion: the code is fine, leave it alone it's taken 30 years (sort of) to get it this far! Deal with the violators instead.  ;D

oooohhhh, can you say scapegoat?

And now for my opinion: Violators = club               Solution = Impeach

I fully intend on adding nothing to this debate until the meeting, but in the meantime let me be annoying to all.

Conor
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 00:09:28 by Monkey Loving Bob »

Offline david

  • Posts: 616
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2007, 11:26:25 »
Thanks Colin.
that's exactly the sort of thing that you should say at the meeting. If you can't make it give me or someone reliable a call and ask them to make your point for you at the meeting. I really want to hear everyone's opinions because this is a really serious matter and I want the club run the way the members want it run.

Email me at davidcox2@gmail.com for a copy of the report. I'll post up the committee's suggestions here too.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 14:42:28 by david »

Offline david

  • Posts: 616
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2007, 14:45:10 »
Might as well just stick it up. this is the unwieldy report. it's written from the memeroies of 3 people so there's slight discrepencies in it.

On the 31st of December I organized a trip down the Upper Caragh, I organized several rescue paddlers and 2 level 3 instructors. I had my trip organised according to the Code of practice but unfortunately the rescue paddlers took ages to eat their breakfast and load their boats. time slipped away and then one of my instructors pulled out. We were seriously short on cars and by the time I'd sorted out every person with a lift it was getting late. I didn't have time to find a second level 3 instructor. Looking at the rescue I had I decided to go ahead any way. At the river I spoke to tom and Dave Byrne. We looked at the water level and at the time and our rescue and this is what we had. The water was high, but there are only 3 Rapid sections, all of which are easily portaged. Discounting these rapid sections the River would Be with in the capabilities of the freshers. While Tom was a level 3 instructor, Dave and I am not, We are only level 3 trainees, However I respect Dave Byrne's ability and judgement on the water. He has spent the last 2 summers working for the ICU in France and lead trips on the Nile In Uganda.
He was in my eyes fit to lead the trip.
I knew it was getting late but we had 2 hours to run a river that should only take 45 min to 1 hour to run. we put on at three O'clock. If it did take longer to run than we had daylight we would be able to walk off quite easily, as the road follows the river and crosses it often. there is also a path that follows the river from the take out upstream. there are many fishing huts along the river, which the path goes by. so I knew that this river was very accessible. Also I ws unsure of how much paddling the freshers had done so far in the week and knew that this would e their last chance to get on the water as rescue would be hungover on the first and heading home on the second. They had all paid 100 euro and traveled 200 miles to go paddeling so I reckoned they deserved the option of getting on the water.
We ran the trip. tom took one group and Dave took the other.
Tom's group went first and reached the bottom ahead of dark, Dave's group went second. here is what each had to say about their trips.
 
The 31st December 2006 I led a group of beginners down the Upper Carragh in County Kerry. I had 8 beginners in my group and had the assistance of David Cox, trainee instructor.

 

Having approached the first few rapids cautiously but it became apparent at one of the rapids that the river was a bit hard for some of the weaker members of the group. From this point on I scouted all rapids and made a judgement call with regard the difficulty of the rapids.

 

At one particular rapid, which opens with a foot bridge, I noticed that the time was approaching 3 o'clock and running this rapid was going to put the group safety in jeopardy not only due to difficulty of the rapid but also to allow the group to finish the river in proper daylight. As a group we portaged this rapid.

 

As time neared 4.30pm, we approached the final rapid of the river; due to difficulty and time restraints the group walked the short remainder of the river.

 

All members of the group were happy with the river trip and were safe.

Tom Bannon

 

Upper Cara- Sunday, 31st December 2006
At the river I was asked to take charge of one group while Tom Bannon took charge
of the other. While evenly divided my group actually ended up consisting of
sixteen people. As far as I'm aware the other group had ten. In my group eight
of the people were more than capable of looking after themselves on the river
and would provide rescue for the weaker paddlers, meaning each of the weaker
paddlers would be looked after by a stronger paddler, a ratio of 1-1, with myself
looking out for the safety of the whole group in general.
                        The river got off to a late start due to the size of
the groups and the uneven landscape at the get in, which meant only one person
could get on at a time. Having run the river the day before, I was confident
that we would have enough time to complete the river before dark, but would
have to move quickly.
                        The river trip was slowed down further by unstoppable
incidents, that is, people swimming. The biggest factor in slowing us down was
Brian Cox injuring himself on the second major rapid. This is the nature of
the sport and nothing could be done to stop this. He capsized on a shallow part
of the rapid and hit his head on a rock. We had to keep the whole group in the
big eddy at the bottom until we cleaned up his cut and covered it up. Had it
not been for this incident we would have made it off before dark.
                       We had run the second last rapid when it started becoming
dark. There was a long walking track along the river left bank so I made everyone
get off the river and walk with their boats to the cars at the end. By this
time it was dark.
                         I strongly believe that this trip was run in a safe
and controlled way. At no point did anyone display signs of worry or fear for
their safety. I constantly asked the group members individually if the were
ok, everyone replied that they were happy and having fun. At no point did things
get out of control. I saw no problem with the safety of my group at any time.

              The members of my group were aware of my qualifications and of
my abilities and were more than happy to paddle the river under my guidance.
I see no problem with Dave's decision to allow me to lead a group. Everything
was done safely.
         I believe the biggest problem with this trip was the late start. As
far as I am aware the other group made it off before dark and my group were
only minutes away from completing the trip. The two groups should have been
at the river and on the water an hour or two earlier to give a bigger comfort
zone, time for any problems that might occur. This said, I knew the capabilities
of every member of my group and was confident that we would make it down in
time. Unfortunately this did not work out. Also the size of the groups was an
issue but it was the safest option with the resources that we had. Making more,
smaller groups would have put extra pressure on the rescue paddlers.
                       Kayaking is a dangerous sport by its nature, but the
rescue and I dealt with every incident that occurred on the river quickly, efficiently,
and safely.


                   Dave Byrne.


Offline david

  • Posts: 616
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 12:54:46 »
Agenda

 

Wednesday 7th Feb.

Meeting should start at 7.oo and last one hour.

1) This meeting will only deal with club trips.

2) I'll explain the incident(the one above).

3) I'll explane the problem.

4) We need to decide as a club if there is a problem.

5) If there is then how do we rectify the problem?

    * a) Try and make more instructors and level 3 proficiencies.

                             And/or

    * b) Make the COP easier to adhere to.

                              And/or

    * c) Put a structure in place that will make sure the COP is adhered to.

                                And/or

    * d) Give me a smacked botty and leave it at that.

 

6) Solutions:

 

   a) More instructors:

    *  Dave and I have undertaken to become instructors. 2 others have undertaken to do so in the next year.

   b) Make COP easier to adhere to:

    *  I have no idea but if someone could possible suggest something people could get behind I'd be very impressed....

   c) Put structure in place:

    * Alert everyone to what a captain can and can't do and put the emphases on the club members to ensure that he/She doesn't break the COP.
    * An independent watch dog
    * Strengthen safety officer position
    * Safety office must be L.3 instructor. (Make it a very serious position on a power with captain)
    * Sighed contracts of the committee undertaking to follow COP to the letter
    * Some sort of penalty?? ??
    * Have a "river captain" with L.3 qualifications.

These are examples of possible solutions that will be up for discussion at the meeting. Not necessarily mine.

If you have any more Ideas please save them for the meeting, If you cannot make the meeting then pass them on to me or someone else who will be there.

Hope to see you all there.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 13:07:05 by david »

Offline carlito

  • Posts: 120
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 13:09:00 »
Quote
Deal with the violators instead

Yes Colin, but who violates the violators?

Offline Diarmaid

  • Posts: 2,748
Re: Club meeting.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 20:27:38 »
I dunno... coast guard?